Shirt I.D.

Discuss all items of issued clothing
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Tinweasel
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Re: Shirt I.D.

Post by Tinweasel » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:55 pm

Mmmmm.....well the problem is this, which period in history are you recreating? All of your examples are post 95

70's and 80's the cap badge was generally over the left eye if only just, roll into the 90's and the badge starts to move around to the ear, in some cases so much so that the beret starts to resemble a flat cap. Just have a look through photos of the Para's in NI during the troubles.

Now if you want to do an accurate 80'a impression and have your cap badge to the side the Royal Green Jackets is the one to go for, many of these battle honours are incorporated into there cap badge and they were in the habit of having the cap badge to the side to show that didn't hide behind them, a nice historical reference :)
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Rudolf Hess was the editor of mine Kampf, so was he the first grammar nazi?

Tring, Hertfordshire

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Sidders101
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Re: Shirt I.D.

Post by Sidders101 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:18 pm

1982 Falklands
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Sidders


1974 Series 3 LWT 12v RHD 69-FM-24 , Royal Marines ("Intrepid")
1976 101 forward control gun tractor 12v RHD- 73-FL-43 ex 1,2 & 3 Para ("Kryten")
1979 Sankey NT Trailer 06-HF-86 78 Engr Reg (Herman)
1978 Trophy Frank Spencer impression (1st place)

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Tinweasel
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Re: Shirt I.D.

Post by Tinweasel » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:45 pm

Ok now compare your photo where badges tend to be off centre of the eye with the wing still over to this photo with the badge over the ear , I'm not going to start any grief over this and I'm not going to start pulling photos off the internet to prove anything either as if nowt else I don't want the copywrite issues, act on it as you will.
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Rudolf Hess was the editor of mine Kampf, so was he the first grammar nazi?

Tring, Hertfordshire

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Sidders101
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Re: Shirt I.D.

Post by Sidders101 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:58 pm

I'll get my coat...... :oops:
Sidders


1974 Series 3 LWT 12v RHD 69-FM-24 , Royal Marines ("Intrepid")
1976 101 forward control gun tractor 12v RHD- 73-FL-43 ex 1,2 & 3 Para ("Kryten")
1979 Sankey NT Trailer 06-HF-86 78 Engr Reg (Herman)
1978 Trophy Frank Spencer impression (1st place)

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Tinweasel
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Re: Shirt I.D.

Post by Tinweasel » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:05 pm

Sorry Sid that came across more snappy than I intended and I just can't back on to remove it...but late now :(

Right back on subject this is the shirt most of the guys in the original photo. As Fred pointed out it's a short mans combat, easy enough to pick up small sizes at shows, larger sizes to also come up from time to time and almost always listed as KF shirts
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Rudolf Hess was the editor of mine Kampf, so was he the first grammar nazi?

Tring, Hertfordshire

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removeduser185
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Re: Shirt I.D.

Post by removeduser185 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:50 pm

Well, if you are planning on 70s/80s to match the 101 or any version of the Lightweight, then your choices are wide, because you can wear any post-war version of a KF shirt - at that time I had one which was very smart - removable collar stiffeners and everything - and I think that was dated 1956. You can also wear either version of the combat shirt - and there is one with a 16" collar and 40" chest on eBay at the moment with a BIN price of about £25 (which is a bit much unless you're in a hurry for it). Then you can also go for an OG shirt, if you can find one big enough, and that is the best choice if you are representing a Para as this was their shirt of choice. Early 80s, you could even wear tropical DPM shirt and trousers - issued in Hong Kong, Brunei and Belize, these were very fashionable! If you are portraying an officer, then you can also wear any of the privately-purchased light-khaki/sand-coloured officers' shirts of the time as they were quite often worn with combats/working dress in those days as well. (But not officers' puttees - they went out of fashion in the middle 70's as they were too obvious in Northern Ireland.)

Regarding berets, yes, the recent or, perhaps still current, fashion for wearing a sort of pizza is horrible and I am really surprised soldiers have been getting away with it as much as they have on parade - loads of photos show them on home-coming parades, flag-lowering and all the rest. It looks dreadful, with the cap badge hanging almost loose over the ear. Not a good look and I am sure, in future years, once it has gone out of fashion again (as it will) they will look back and say, "ugh, did I really wear my beret like that in those days?" But, it certainly wasn't the way they were worn in the 70s and 80s. In those days, there was a tendency for the cap badge to move away from directly over the left eye as it should have been, but it wasn't extreme, though Paras did, even then, tend to go that little bit further than everyone else.

It is all down to fashion, which is why you have to look carefully to match a particular era. In the late 60's/early 70s the fashion in the RAC, RTR and, for some reason, the RCT was to wear the cap badge in the centre of the forehead with a "double pull" - the loose cloth being pulled down to both sides. That was fashionable, because it implied you wore headphones (ie commanded an armoured vehicle, for example (not sure what the RCT reason was)). But it disappeared, as did the large issue berets - in the middle 70s everyone wanted to buy a "Victor's" beret from the shop in Aldershot (another fashion trend set by the Paras, who were probably the first along this particular road). It was smaller, neater and had a leather band, while the issue version had a cloth tape or plastic band. But there had never to be any evidence of the bow at the back! Later, little stitch-on bows appeared. All a question of the time.

When I joined "elastics", preferably short, bungee-like affairs with hooks and eyes on each end taken from parachute packs, were the fashion round the bottom of the trousers. (Wearing trousers tucked in to the anklets or puttees was absolutely the end!) And you pulled the trouser ends down as far as you could to hide most of the anklet or puttee. But, once high-leg boots appeared, (the NI patrol boot was pretty much the first) the fashion moved the trouser leg up the boot - to show off the fact you had the latest fashion. Currently, I see the fashion is for trouser bottoms to be right down again. Thenn there was "blousing" of the combat jacket... And so it goes on!

But, don't forget, these are my observations and these things would vary from unit to unit according to local fashion and what people could get away with. I hope all this rambling helps. If it doesn't, do tell me to shut up!

Fred

StevieK

Re: Shirt I.D.

Post by StevieK » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:02 pm

Can't / won't argue with any of the above. I can only draw on how I wore kit and the way others did, in the period I served but also having read and collected a lot of books and mags on the British Army since then.

In NI during the late 70's we were issued the shirt KF, which was hated. I used to shave the inside of the collar so at least you didn't get friction burns. After a while I bought a few US Army green long-sleeved shirts which made life a lot more comfortable. We couldn't get away with wearing No 2 Dress shirts as these were for NCOs only.

Jackets were tailored, not to excess but so there wasn't a bumful of material to fold back when wearing your webbing. Of course in those days we had better shapes to tailor to....:-(

Berets....a thousand different looks, in time you could tell someone from behind by the shape of their beret. I wore mine (and still do, on occasion) with cap badge directly over the left eye but with the beret headband right on the eyebrow. The back sat right at the crown of the head, not pulled down like a condom. Working in a 'temperate' climate meant that the beret got soaked regularly, shrank and dried on your head so fitted very well. If you could throw your head around, leg it across any sort of ground and the thing stayed where it was, then you had it right.

Wearing DMS boots with puttees, they were worn the usual way but not with the 'trollies' inside the puttees. We wore cut-down braces with the metal adjusters, or bought the 'blousers'. These were set half-way on the puttees and the trousers folded under them, you then stamped your feet to get the trousers to 'hang' properly. By the way, if you ever see a bloke doing this anywhere (like getting out of his car) then he's probably a veteran and you know why he's doing it.

When we started wearing NI Patrol boots or Dr Martens, it was pretty much the same drill but the elastics would be set near where the lace was looped around the top of the boot, and the 'stamping' ceremony continued.

As Fred says, regiments and corps had their own styles for berets....tankies / armoured wore the badge right in the middle of the forehead, with the beret folded down on both sides instead of the right. This I believe is due to their regular use of headsets (any excuse). The Paras...I was told it depended on which battalion it was - 1 Para wore theirs over the eye, 2 Para slightly to the left and 3 Para half-way between ear and eye. 9 Para Eng Sqn RE wear their RE cap badge half-way around, almost hidden by the beret (maroon). I worked with blokes who were ex-Royal Irish Fusiliers / Rangers, and they shaped their berets like the caubeen they used to wear.
If you turn up any photos that need discussion / explanation, put them up. Loads of scope and the parameters are very loose.

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Re: Shirt I.D.

Post by Pilgrimmick » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:26 pm

There are both Battalions there, the Cpl is Dave ‘Pig’ Abols who received a MM at Goose Green,

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