Rifle grenades

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Tinweasel
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Rifle grenades

Post by Tinweasel » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:39 pm

Been going through some more stuff today and found these.
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20180118_221429.jpg (2.75 MiB) Viewed 136 times
The bottom one is an L60a1 and the top and L86a1 both are the training version. Anyone got any information on 5.56 rifle grenades in British use? I don't seem to recall seeing much.

Shaun
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Tinweasel
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Re: Rifle grenades

Post by Tinweasel » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:01 pm

I believe the L60 is a french design and the L86 Israeli. I also think at least 2 other types were used, one was extendable and had a flip out sight fitted, the other was very similar to the L86 visually but the training version had a white tail. Anyone remember these and we're there others?

Shaun
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Re: Rifle grenades

Post by Tinweasel » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:35 am

A couple of other relevant bits I havery tucked away
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Any L8A1 40mm Training grenade, these are fired from the under slung launcher and replaced the rifle grenade. This one is a marker round (as is the L60 above) and is full of powder to show where the round hit.

And below is the carrier for the L60 rifle grenade, made in such a way that it can be carried on the side of the bergen in place of a side pouch or on PLCE webbing.

Shaun
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Re: Rifle grenades

Post by Fred » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:51 pm

What a fascinating collection - things I have never come across. Last time I saw anything with a chalk marker, it was the Energa grenade - when I was a boy I remember watching a group of Paras firing them at the old Imber Court from their SLRs. Clearly they weren't very accurate - they were trying to get them through the windows, but, judging by the chalk marks on the wall, were only occasionally lucky! I never fired one myself, though.

Fred

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Tinweasel
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Re: Rifle grenades

Post by Tinweasel » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:02 pm

Fred wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:51 pm
What a fascinating collection - things I have never come across. Last time I saw anything with a chalk marker, it was the Energa grenade - when I was a boy I remember watching a group of Paras firing them at the old Imber Court from their SLRs. Clearly they weren't very accurate - they were trying to get them through the windows, but, judging by the chalk marks on the wall, were only occasionally lucky! I never fired one myself, though.

Fred
Thanks Fred, I get the impression that the British army wasn't really in favour of rifle grenades, they certainly don't seem to have wasted much time training people to use them, expecting everyone to just get on with it when they get issued them.

These differ from the Energa grenade, they are smaller due to relying on a smaller cartridge to propel them, but they are slightly more practical to use. With the energa you would have to fit an adapter to the muzzle and then chamber a blank round to fire the grenade, using ball rounds would not be good. These simply slide over the muzzle and are designed to trap a bullet meaning there is no need to chamber a blank. However I think they are probably more articles than science to use.

Shaun
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Re: Rifle grenades

Post by Fred » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:12 pm

Tinweasel wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:02 pm
Fred wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:51 pm
What a fascinating collection - things I have never come across. Last time I saw anything with a chalk marker, it was the Energa grenade - when I was a boy I remember watching a group of Paras firing them at the old Imber Court from their SLRs. Clearly they weren't very accurate - they were trying to get them through the windows, but, judging by the chalk marks on the wall, were only occasionally lucky! I never fired one myself, though.

Fred
Thanks Fred, I get the impression that the British army wasn't really in favour of rifle grenades, they certainly don't seem to have wasted much time training people to use them, expecting everyone to just get on with it when they get issued them.

These differ from the Energa grenade, they are smaller due to relying on a smaller cartridge to propel them, but they are slightly more practical to use. With the energa you would have to fit an adapter to the muzzle and then chamber a blank round to fire the grenade, using ball rounds would not be good. These simply slide over the muzzle and are designed to trap a bullet meaning there is no need to chamber a blank. However I think they are probably more articles than science to use.

Shaun
If I remember correctly, the Energa was a shaped charge so also rather unwieldy, but, the launcher/adapter actually had its own pouch on the side of the 58 Patt ammo pouch, though I never saw it used for anything other than KFS! But, no, I don't think the British Army was particularly interested in them. Perhaps it was thought that it involved getting too close and memories of the PIAT lived on!

Fred

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Re: Rifle grenades

Post by Dodge » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:04 pm

Tinweasel wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:39 pm
Been going through some more stuff today and found these.

The bottom one is an L60a1 and the top and L86a1 both are the training version. Anyone got any information on 5.56 rifle grenades in British use? I don't seem to recall seeing much.

Shaun
I went through pretty intensive training on the L60 (or similar, I don't recall the designation), I'm assuming when they were first released? I'd not seen anything like before 1990. Fired loads of practice rounds and a dozen or so live ones before deployment to NI in 1991. From memory each platoon carried at least 6 or more in NI... and after that tour I never saw one again.

They were issued to us in response to South Armagh PIRA having previously use homemade armoured trucks to fire from. We also carried a few 66mm per Platoon on every patrol and occasionally took MILAN out with us, but without live rounds, mainly for the Infrared capability but was a decent propaganda tool, it raised a few eye brows with the CivPop...

The L60 with SA80 use were fired from the shoulder in normal fashion, using a fair bit of guess work on trajectory by using the tiny iron sight on top of the SUSAT... It also delivered a hell of a kick through the SA80, it was advisable to fire them with riot visor down, those that didn't got a got a good smack in the nose, blood and breakage wasn't uncommon.

I don't remember having any specific webbing to carry them in though? but in typical fashion for my unit, we would discard anything we didn't see fit for purpose. I would imagine the lads that carried them stuffed them inside their Bergan's never expecting use them.

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Re: Rifle grenades

Post by Tinweasel » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:20 pm

Thanks dodge the carrier is have isome in unissued condition and is dated 1997, in fact all the carriers I have seen were dated 1997 which MAY answer why you don't remember them.

Shaun
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